Keep a Watchful Eye on People Who Cause Trouble
For Paul, one of the main problems facing Christian congregations are divisive people, people who selfishly disregard the unity of the Body of Christ for their own diseased (morbid) reasons. He repeatedly warns us to guard our fellowships against people who would cause trouble and division. One of his very clear warnings appears at the end of Romans. Here are several renditions of Romans 16:17.
"Mark them who cause divisions and offenses . . . and avoid them," (KJV).
"Take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties . . . avoid them," (RSV).
"Keep a watchful eye on those who cause trouble and make difficulties among you . . . steer clear of them," (Phillips).
"Keep an eye on those who cause dissensions . . . and turn away from them," NASB).
"Be on your guard against anybody who encourages trouble . . . Avoid them," (JB).
If you believe the Word of God, and want to obey its precepts and commands, then you have one here.
Avoid, steer clear of, and turn away from anyone who creates dissensioins and difficulties, who causes and encourages trouble in the congregation, who causes divisions between people.
Mark them in your mind, take note of who they are, be on your guard against them, keep an eye on them -- keep a watchful eye on them, and don't associate with them.
* * * * * * * *
The Apostle again zeroes in on people who love to disrupt congregational life again in his first letter to Timothy.
In the letter Paul emphasizes our toal to "live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness." He says he wants people "everywhere to pray, lifting holy hands without anger or disputing." He writes that leaders must "not be violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome." He writes that Christians are "not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything."
Near the end of the letter Paul writes: "These are the things you are to teach and insist on. If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and arguments that result in envy, quarreling, malicious talk, evil suspicions, and constant friction between people with corrupt minds," (TNIV).
Here follow several other translations of I Timothy 6:4,5:
"All that can come of this is jealousy, contention, abuse and wicked mistrust of one another; and unending disputes by people who are neither rational nor informed," (JB).
"He has a morbid interest" in controversy, "out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved minds and deprived of the truth," (NASB).
"His mind is a morbid jumble of disputation and argument, things which lead to nothing but jealousy, quarreling, insults and malicious innuendoes--continual wrangling, in fact, among men of warped minds who have lost their real hold on the truth," (Phillips).
"He is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes . . . which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, " (RSV).
"He is doting on questions and disputes . . . of which cometh envy, strife, railings, evil suspicions, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth . . . from such withdraw thyself," (KJV).
"From such withdraw thyself." That's pretty clear.
"These are the things you are to teach and insist on."
"Mark them who cause divisions and offenses . . . and avoid them," (KJV).
"Take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties . . . avoid them," (RSV).
"Keep a watchful eye on those who cause trouble and make difficulties among you . . . steer clear of them," (Phillips).
"Keep an eye on those who cause dissensions . . . and turn away from them," NASB).
"Be on your guard against anybody who encourages trouble . . . Avoid them," (JB).
If you believe the Word of God, and want to obey its precepts and commands, then you have one here.
Avoid, steer clear of, and turn away from anyone who creates dissensioins and difficulties, who causes and encourages trouble in the congregation, who causes divisions between people.
Mark them in your mind, take note of who they are, be on your guard against them, keep an eye on them -- keep a watchful eye on them, and don't associate with them.
* * * * * * * *
The Apostle again zeroes in on people who love to disrupt congregational life again in his first letter to Timothy.
In the letter Paul emphasizes our toal to "live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness." He says he wants people "everywhere to pray, lifting holy hands without anger or disputing." He writes that leaders must "not be violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome." He writes that Christians are "not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything."
Near the end of the letter Paul writes: "These are the things you are to teach and insist on. If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and arguments that result in envy, quarreling, malicious talk, evil suspicions, and constant friction between people with corrupt minds," (TNIV).
Here follow several other translations of I Timothy 6:4,5:
"All that can come of this is jealousy, contention, abuse and wicked mistrust of one another; and unending disputes by people who are neither rational nor informed," (JB).
"He has a morbid interest" in controversy, "out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved minds and deprived of the truth," (NASB).
"His mind is a morbid jumble of disputation and argument, things which lead to nothing but jealousy, quarreling, insults and malicious innuendoes--continual wrangling, in fact, among men of warped minds who have lost their real hold on the truth," (Phillips).
"He is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes . . . which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, " (RSV).
"He is doting on questions and disputes . . . of which cometh envy, strife, railings, evil suspicions, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth . . . from such withdraw thyself," (KJV).
"From such withdraw thyself." That's pretty clear.
"These are the things you are to teach and insist on."
posted by Ron Goetz | 5:05 PM
4 Comments:
Ron,
Thanks for the blog. The funny thing about Paul's letters is that evidently his churches were full of dissension. That's not surprising; they were full of people--redeemed Christian people, but people nonetheless.
I think Paul makes distinctions among dissenters. Those undermining the Gospel were to be thrown out forthwith. Those living immoral lives, ditto (though they might be received back into the church after repentance). Those faithful Christians who didn't get along with Paul or each other, though, (Euodia and Syntyche, for instance) are to be cherished, counseled and reconciled.
The spiritual discernment, then, is to distinguish among the truly toxic and the merely obnoxious. We've all known both kinds of people in the church. Unfortunately, the truly toxic can be harder to get rid of, as a colleague of mine is wrestling with right now. He's about to be run out of a church because a toxic person rules.
In Christ,
Andy
Andy, thank you much for your response. Your shepherd's heart is much in evidence. In your last paragraph you make a distinction I have to question.
"The spiritual discernment, then, is to distinguish among the truly toxic and the merely obnoxious."
I don't think there is really a difference between a person who is toxic and one who is obnoxious.
In the dictionary the words "toxic," "toxin," "obnoxious," and "noxious" have overlapping meanings. To be toxic and to be obnoxious seem synonymous to me, especially when it comes to damaging and the health and harmony of the Body of Christ.
I do more than pay lip-service when I agree with the necessity of exercising discernment in terms of how to deal with troubled, wounded people. All of us are troubled and wounded to some degree or other. This is why the Scriptures tell us over and over to forgive one another, that love covers a multitude of sins, etc.
But the severely wounded animal presents a different problem. Your friendly pet will turn on you and bite you if its painful wound is severe enough. If it threatens your toddler because of its pain, you will take pains to separate your pet from your toddler. Young ones are in no position to protect themselves from the animal with teeth and claws. I would be irresponsible to not protect my children from a wounded cat or dog that is lashing out in pain.
Rogue sheep, obnoxious and toxic, can do more than drag a pastor down. Such a sheep can wreck a congregation through arrogance and haughtiness, spreading discontent, scheming for power, creating an "us versus them" mentality (factions) and driving off other sheep.
The good news of the Gospel you mentioned is undermined when it is contradicted by such behavior. Multitudes of people have been alienated from Christ because of our inability to deal with the severely wounded sheep.
I have witnessed this with my own eyes.
Ron:
I think that you are overly concerned with semantics. Simply taking a definition out of the dictionary for a term, such as "toxic" and "obnoxious" and not taking consideration of the context they are being used in is missing the point. (Reread Andy's comments) I think what Andy was saying is that We all know the people who consistently need help, push others into joining groups, or try to impose their political and spiritual beliefs on others in inappropriate forums. These are the people that we just shake our heads at and say, "Gosh, they are sooo obnoxious." Generally, this type of person is harmless and we let them have their way on many occasions. The toxic person would be the one who questions the authority of those who are in leadership, unable to submit to that person's authority, and to cause hurt, confusion, and acting in anger.
I think that being kind and gentleall the time can be just as bad as being firm and harsh all the time. There should be a little of both when dealing with others. These are the skills that are used when trying to set boundaries with either family members, co-workers, or anyone else that require such things.
A church family is really no different than one's own family. You can't choose your parents, siblings, or any other member of your family and the same can generally be said about the members of your congregation. (Or you can jump from Church to Church searching for that perfect congregation or at least one you can change to align with your own ideology.) You just learn to deal with them in ways that accomplish a positive outcome for both. This is a skill that doesn't come easy to some people. Are we to discount the authority or leadership of those who are well qualified or willing to be leaders, but are not consistently dealing with others in the mild and humble manner you speak of?
I agree: "All of us are troubled and wounded to some degree or other. This is why the Scriptures tell us over and over to forgive one another, that love covers a multitude of sins, etc." But using the analogy of a wounded animal shouldn't be used. An animal doesn't have the capacity to think out how they should react to their pain and the closeness of the humans in their life. "I would be irresponsible to not protect my children from a wounded cat or dog that is lashing out in pain." That's a great statement if you are speaking about a wounded animal. But we are talking about the wounded human and humans are difficult to deal with. Yes, you should be gentle when helping with the process of healing. But at some point, you have to be firm in your direction with that person once they are over the initial pain. Some people can become "toxic" because they know that to do so will assist them in attaining more from those who are helping them. Or they never learned what you tried to teach them. I think some people are just malcontents and either you should either accept things as they are, or counsel them so that they can be more aligned with the Body of Christ. After awhile you are not helping them with love and kindness, you have now become an enabler. You enable them to go from "obnoxious" to "Toxic".
Do you honestly think that Peter and Paul were always gentle and kind! It seems to me that they told a few churches exactly where they stood and that they needed to change. And I didn't get the feeling that this was all said in a meek and humble tone either.
I agree,"Such a sheep can wreck a congregation through arrogance and haughtiness, spreading discontent, scheming for power, creating an "us versus them" mentality (factions) and driving off other sheep." However, I find that those who consistently point out the faults in others, tell their point of view about EVERYTHING, demand others to explain themselves, and just plain disagree just to disagree can cause the same problems.
In the end, we are all on a spiritual journey. Some of us just express this differently.
In His Grip,
Michelle
I realized that I was probably quibbling over words when I compared toxic and obnoxious, and that Andy was attempting a legitimate distinction. A weaker word like rude is found in I Corinthians 13.
As for comparing a person to an animal, that’s common in the Scriptures. A short list includes such phrases as:
Casting pearls before swine
A wolf in sheep’s clothing
There the vultures will gather
The lost sheep of Israel
As a hen gathers her chicks
You brood of snakes
Even though the kind of destructive person I was describing could have been called a wolf, I preferred to use the sheep idea, because we aren’t usually privy to a person’s “eternal standing” before the Lord. I don’t know whether a person is a wolf or a severely wounded sheep.
I was acknowledging that even sheep can be destructive of the atmosphere in which Christian nurture and discipleship can occur, if they are severely wounded and in pain.
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